Forum:2018-07-04 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Bored? Looking for something useful to do? There's plenty of wiki editing you can do. ---- ...Well then. Nice to have it official. --MadCat221 (talk) 05:48, July 4, 2018 (UTC) : Yeah, finally, Foglios. You drug this out waaay longer than you needed to. --Geoduck42 (talk) 05:52, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::It "dragged". And it's called plot development. Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:15, July 5, 2018 (UTC) :: And congratulations, Geoduck42, on being right about Higgs being in the British Navy. (I wonder how he avoids being considered AWOL...) I don't understand, though, why Tarvek is being so melodramatic. If he intends to expose Higgs, his claiming allegiance to Agatha isn't going to help him. And if he doesn't, why not just say, "Don't worry, General, I'm not planning to tell anyone" in panel 6? Bkharvey (talk) 06:08, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::The "Secret General" was supposed to stay secret until Lucrezia is removed from Agatha. This not only risks Higgs cover being blown but, because Tarvek is the person who can remove her, having Lucrezia discover this while still occupying her daughter. --Fred1740 (talk) 11:08, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::: We've been talking at cross purposes a lot lately. I agree that Higgs would rather Tarvek not know who he is, or, failing that, that Tarvek keep quiet about it. (By the way, I would have expected every speech balloon on this page to be dotted lines, to indicate whispering. Tarvek and Higgs can't possibly be having this conversation at full voice with Wooster in the room.) By the end of this page, we have established that Tarvek knows (okay, technically, that he suspects) who Higgs is, and we have established (in the "I will do anything for Agatha") that Tarvek is not going to expose Higgs. All I'm asking is why Tarvek didn't establish all that straightforwardly instead of putting Higgs' hand around his neck first. (I don't see how your other point is in play. First of all, if anything that would be Tarvek's secret, not Higgs' secret, and yet Tarvek isn't withholding anything from Higgs here. Secondly, Lucrezia already knows that Tarvek is best qualified to remove her from Agatha--she, Lucrezia, taught Tarvek herself. And she knows that he's in love with Agatha. I think she can connect the dots. And finally, Higgs wouldn't tell Lucrezia the time of day.) Bkharvey (talk) 18:31, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :: P.S. Also, the (other) Generals told Tarvek that the last General would stay hidden until the Other was removed from Agatha's mind. So Tarvek should also be telling Higgs that he, Tarvek, is planning to achieve that. Bkharvey (talk) 06:23, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::: Oh, wait, Fred1740, were you answering this paragraph? Then what you said makes more sense. But Tarvek talking about the anti-Lucrezia project wouldn't threaten Higgs' cover any more than the conversation they did have. And I stand by "Higgs wouldn't tell Lucrezia the time of day." Bkharvey (talk) 18:37, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::::It's a matter of Lucrezia discovering that Higgs is the secret Jägergeneral. He doesn't have to say anything or be present when it happens. It's his concern that it could. --Fred1740 (talk) 23:09, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ::::::Okay, so, (1) instead of threatening Tarvek, which is Higgs' typical reaction to a threat of immediate exposure, he should be explaining to Tarvek, in a way calculated to keep Tarvek on his side, that he mustn't discuss any theories he has about Higgs with Agatha as long as she's Other-infested. (Not that Tarvek needs that explained to him, but maybe Higgs doesn't know Tarvek as well as we do.) And (2) Tarvek should be telling Higgs that the other Generals have explained to him why the last General is in hiding. All else being equal, characters on the same team should talk with each other. (Look at all the devious ways chess bridge (oops!) players have developed to tell their partners what's in their hand even though they're not allowed to.) Sorry for belaboring this, but I always get mad in whodunits when someone (usually, in period whodunits at least, a stereotype ditzy female) goes off to a secret meeting with the killer without telling at least a dozen other people what she's doing and why. Bkharvey (talk) 03:06, July 5, 2018 (UTC) :::: P.S. And, Tarvek's melodrama isn't honest. He knows Higgs isn't going to strangle him on a closed submarine. Yes, if this were a life-or-death moment for House Heterodyne he'd kill all the innocent bystanders if necessary, but it isn't. Bkharvey (talk) 19:29, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::: P.P.S. Now that I think it through, what Tarvek should really be saying is, "You really don't want to hurt me, General, because I'm the one who's going to get the Other out of Agatha's head"! Bkharvey (talk) 20:08, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :: P.P.S. Y'all're gonna say I'm overthinking things again, but how can Higgs be surprised to see Tarvek onboard? The entire reason for this sub making this trip is to bring Tarvek to Agatha. No Tarvek, no trip. (Yeah, sure, maybe there's a daily mail delivery or something and Wooster and Tarvek just hitched a ride, but in that case the message about the murder and the lockdown of the dome would have gone to the captain of the sub, not to Wooster.) Bkharvey (talk) 06:46, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :::There are different levels of "surprised". The last Higgs knew of Tarvek he had been kidnapped by the Librarians with Gil and Bang in hot pursuit. That whole party was headed for Paris. Now he finds Tarvek on a British submarine on it's way to the Sparkdome. More of a "fancy meeting you here. Shouldn't you be in Paris in the Incorruptible Library?" --Fred1740 (talk) 11:08, July 4, 2018 (UTC) : I don't think we can call this an official confirmation that Higgs is the secret Jägergeneral, yet. This just confirms that Tarvek thinks he is, perhaps with excellent reason. Unless Higgs responds in such a way as to definitely confirm that he is the secret General, we don't really know much that we didn't before. He can just deflect or ignore Tarvek's accusation or the submarine can be attacked or some other distraction can occurs. The next page will be very interesting. -- William Ansley (talk) 16:07, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ::Really? What do you need? A notarized letter from the Foglio's lawyers? Sheesh! --Fred1740 (talk) 16:19, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ::: The characters in the story don't always tell the truth, and don't always reach the correct conclusions when they analyze a situation. We don't need a notarized letter, but we need something more than one character (even a clever character) reaching that conclusion. Argadi (talk) 17:52, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ::::You have a very long string of evidence (go back and read it). What's required? At least three, in story, main characters must state, in plain text (not mad or monster or machine font), that Higgs is the secret Jägergeneral? We are headed toward a conclusion of the story - it's a few years off but we're headed there - which means threads are being closed. Some things, like this one, are becoming easier to predict than in the first half of the story which was creating threads. --Fred1740 (talk) 23:09, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ::::: I'm not going to argue with you. I am aware of all of the evidence. I do believe and have believed for years that Higgs is the secret Jägergeneral, but it simply a fact that this page has no done more than add to the evidence, it has not established that Higgs really is such as a canonical fact. What is required? I would say the man himself admitting as much would be quite sufficient. -- William Ansley (talk) 02:24, July 5, 2018 (UTC) ::: I think we all believe Higgs is a General. William is questioning "official confirmation"; I had the same thought. I'm expecting official confirmation on the next submarine page, although that probably won't be the next page; at times like these they tend to have a "meanwhile" page next. Bkharvey (talk) 18:31, July 4, 2018 (UTC) What message is Higgs delivering? Jenka already delivered word about the Hideous Extradimensional Being problem. --MadCat221 (talk) 17:40, July 4, 2018 (UTC) : Higgs may not know that Jenka found Agatha. Or Higgs may want to hear Agatha's reaction. Bkharvey (talk) 18:31, July 4, 2018 (UTC) :: And Higgs can give Agatha a first hand report, not filtered through several persons who have no clue about what they are talking about. Svesjo (talk) 19:13, July 4, 2018 (UTC) : The pause ("...") make me think there might not really be a message. We know Higgs headed toward Agatha because of the signal that Zeetha was in distress. Argadi (talk) 21:00, July 4, 2018 (UTC) A note on the art: Higgs' eyes are just slightly crossed in panel 7. I'm sure this wasn't intentional, because once you see it, it makes him look really stupid. So, proving once again that misery loves company, I'm passing on the curse to y'all. Bwah hah hah! P.S. Those super-thick eyebrows indicating anger look fine on Higgs but are really jarring on Tarvek. And, what's Wooster so happy about in panel 3? Bkharvey (talk) 19:07, July 4, 2018 (UTC) On Tarvek's pince-nez: Most of the time, they sit on his nose below the level of his eyes. I've been assuming that he's farsighted, like me, and so he looks straight over them for most purposes but looks down, through the lenses, to read something in his lap or on his desk. But once in a while, as in the last panel today, the lenses are at eye level. Y'all will say that this is because of our viewpoint, looking up at his face in panel 8, but level with his face in panel 9. Alas, if that were the issue, they'd surround his eyes in panel 8, and be below his eyes in panel 9, the opposite of what we actually see. Perhaps he slides them up and down his nose depending on what he's looking at? No, because his hands are busy between panels 8 and 9. Details aside, pince-nez are a great prop early in the story, when he is trying to persuade his relatives that he's physically incompetent, but now that he's disclaimed that need and instead would like to look manly to Agatha, I'm surprised he doesn't get contacts, or at least normal glasses, if contacts haven't been invented yet. Bkharvey (talk) 19:49, July 4, 2018 (UTC) "Ain't 'sneaking' on, sir." Nice parallel with also to Tarvek, all those years ago. Have we heard him say "ain't" other than those two? Bkharvey (talk) 20:00, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ' Lucrezia has already met Higgs.' Remember? They tried to kill one another, in the Castle Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 15:43, July 5, 2018 (UTC) ::iirc she don't have any idea about who or what he is just that he ia suprisingly good in a fight. Agge.se (talk) 16:05, July 5, 2018 (UTC) : Are we talking about Higgs fighting Zola? Even after absorbing a copy of Lucrezia, Zola doesn't share the Other's goals, and is unlikely to communicate with other instances. I don't think Higgs fought Lucrezia-in-Agatha; he fought Castle-in-Otilia while Zeetha and Violetta fought Lucrezia. And, as has been mentioned, Higgs went to extreme lengths to keep his identity secret then. (Despite which, Tarvek is already to work it out.) Bkharvey (talk) 23:39, July 5, 2018 (UTC) Stuff we still don't know: What was Higgs before? Suggestions on the wiki include a spark and a bystander to the original discovery of the Dyne by the Heterodynes. What will he say to Agatha when they meet? Will he help Tarvek work on her? Why is he so much more energetic than the other Generals? ... Bkharvey (talk) 23:46, July 5, 2018 (UTC) ...And we don't yet know where (General) Vole is. The quote was: "We are going to Paris. Now." SillyOne (talk) 13:52, July 7, 2018 (UTC)